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Catch & keep vs live release
God created all life forms and gave humans the power to dominate them all, as stated in Beraishis (Genesis), chapter 1, verse 28 : "And God blessed man saying: Be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and master it, and rule the fish of the sea, and the birds in the sky, and the living things that creep on the earth." and chapter 9, verse3 "All animals which live shall be for you to eat. Like the vegetables, I have given them to you - all of them."
"Catch it"
"Clean it"
"Grill it"
We see that from the very beginning, humans ate fish for survival despite what some "conservationists", "vegans" or clowns like the people at PETA may claim. Fish are extremely beneficial to human health, as science has proved over and over, and new studies are continually backing up this fact.
That being said, there are unfortunately many water bodies that carry fish consumption advisories, as industrial chemicals have contaminated most of our waterways. The good news is, most fish are still edible, and both the provinces of Quebec and Ontario test know fishing spots at regular intervals, and publish their guidelines.
For detailed consumption information visit the ministry's respective web sites by clicking:
Quebec: http://www.mddep.gouv.qc.ca/eau/guide/ (French)
Ontario: http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/envision/guide/
Both Quebec and Ontario have many rules in place to protect species of game fish from, namely closed seasons, usually during spawn when fish are extremely vulnerable, and year round bag or slot limits when fishing is open for any given species. These rules are law, and must be respected in order to ensure the fishery surviving and being available for our descendants.
For complete rules visit the ministry's respective web sites by clicking:
Quebec: Click Here
Ontario: Click Here
Catching and keeping your own fish is a great way to ensure that your fish are fresh, and coming from a reliable, non polluted source. In addition, most kids are really enjoy watching fish being filleted, and can be another great way to keep them (and yourself) occupied when you're not on the water. Click here for fillet instructions.
Question:
Phil, You say that you appreciate all feedback so here goes. ..I think the way you have come to the Long Sault area and blatantly kill carp is disgusting. There are numerous operations on both the Canadian and American side of the Long Sault area that cater to European carp fisherman who strictly practice catch and release because they care about the carp. This area has only become popular for carp fishing in the past 10 years which is how I suppose you heard about it and now take advantage of this. I noticed you had the audacity to post a dead carp on a Long Sault operators sight. ARE YOU FOR REAL!!!! You will not be very popular next season in the Long Sault area are at all!!!
Answer:
Although we both have VERY different opinions, I still do appreciate the feedback.
I find it more disgusting that people would come hundreds of miles to simply hook a fish, torture it by fighting it, then release it, hoping to put it through the same ordeal again! This is true cruelty to creatures. Do you think that perhaps the carp enjoys fighting as much as the anglers do?
The people you mentioned don't care about carp, they care about themselves. If they truly "cared" about carp, they wouldn't be anglers, they would be PETA members. Many of the people you refer to are tourists, however I pay taxes to Canada, in addition to MNR license fees, so this gives me at least an equal right to fish there, if not more. I personally have been fishing the Long Sault area since the age of 5, which is way before any of these people and outfitters showed up in the first place.
Fish have been used for food for thousands of years before "catch and release" was ever invented. In fact, God designated carp as food when he created the world. Killing carp is not worse than killing chicken or beef (except for PETA).
Although I don't enjoy eating them, ALL carp that I have killed have gone to feed poor people in my neighborhood. Some had tears of joy in their eyes, as they received enough food to feed their family for a while, despite knowing about the MNR advisories, which I told them about before keeping any fish from that area. If you had no food to eat, I guarantee that you would NOT be releasing any food.
I release any carp I don't plan to keep, but the Ontario ministry has no limits on carp for a good reasons. Long Sault has more carp than many other species combined do and are actually classified as non native / invasive species. By taking 20-30 carp per year, I'm not harvesting more than your average walleye or perch fisherman does, and those species already have limits . The very fact that they have bag limits on other species proves that there are "catch and keep" anglers out there too.
Here are some comments I've received regarding this post, I obviously skipped derogatory comments and insults; if you want to comment on this issue, use our feedback form by clicking here.
- Phil I fully agree with your views on Catch and Keep.
- Phil, I'd rather not get involved, I like to eat what I catch myself but I don't really want to debate this. I think you were attacked by an ideologist personally, don't worry about it.
- Personally I'm mostly a catch and release fisherman, although I do sometimes keep a few small fish for eating. If I'm fishing in the city, I don't, because the water isn't clean, but up north, I'll keep a few and cook them on a campfire. I don't feel that bad keeping a few small fish, as long as I'm going to eat them. However, I do usually always release fish like carp, musky, and pike over 5 lbs. Part of my fun in fishing is watching a fish swim away after a good fight. I know it does seem pointless to hook a fish and then release it, but I love the outdoors and it's not a sport I'm going to give up. Anyways, thanks, and good fishing!
- I personally don't have a problem with a person keeping their legal limit of fish to eat. I am only personally opposed to the keeping of large trophy game fish and / or low density/endangered fish. Carp are a non-native / invasive species of which there is definitely no shortage of. Keeping a few to eat will definitely not hurt their population and having too many carp around has definitely hurt some native sport fishes populations and spawning habitat. If Europeans have problems with regs on carp in Canada ,I feel the can take as many carp from us as they want and transplant them back to where they belong.
- This is s tough point. I am strictly except in the rarest of situations (say fishing pristine water in the north, for trout or maybe walleye and i only keep my limit) a catch and release fisherman. My belief and as I said it's my belief only, is that catching and releasing at least allows the fish to go home recuperate and live on....sure it's somewhat torturous to catch and then release but....kill it and it's dead! release it and maybe he's had a bad day for sure but he will get over it, and indeed live to swim another day and from what I hear from friends in the UK carp are never caught the same way twice due to their being very smart, and their ability to learn from their mistakes, or so I've been told, so unless a fisherman changes tactics that fish he will never catch again. I have a hard time understanding the catch and kill policy especially if you are not catching for yourself. I'm not a fan of catching fish for others really but that's just me. In the case of a religious or even a conscience point of view that catch and release is torture, as compared to outright killing a fish well I say go and seek the input of others and in the case of religious beliefs in terms of ..if ya catch it better make it worth it and kill it....seek out many opinions from those in the know. Maybe there is a varying view out there as to what one religious person might think as compared to another. Fish by the way do not feel pain as you or I (fish eat all kinds of things with spikes and points so a hook through their mouth flesh does not register a true pain response as we know it) their brains are far less sophisticated than ours without going all scientific they feel stress and for lack of a better word nervous when caught to the point of being so nervous they can actually die when fought too long or hard due to lactic acid build up, and therefore the reason for proper release knowledge to release a fish so he can survive and not just turn belly up in the next few seconds after being let go of. Long story short...too late...I'm for catch and release but i think that when getting the opinion of others there are always varying degrees and opinions so find the opinion that suits you and do what you want. But at the very least don't break the bag limits that's the absolute non no. And for those of the UK there are so many carp here and so few to fish for them not likely that taking a few carp each year is going to hurt the fishing at all in my opinion.
Here are some more back and forth comments I've had about this issue with one of the Long Sault carp clubs. They have been re-printed with permission from the web site's manager, Jeff Vaughan:
From Jeff:
Colin and I are English, we were brought up to cherish and protect carp as if they were our own children. You will NEVER see one of us mishandling or endangering carp, and we are likely to get upset when those fishing with us do. HOWEVER we now live in Canada, and the Canadian way is different. It is completly legal as long as you have a fishing licence to kill as many fish as you like. NOTHING will make us like this, but we at least respect it. I do not like to see any carp damaged, but if I am truthful people taking the smaller fish for the table (say up to 15lb) can only improve the fishery as there are too many, but taking plus 20`s and even as happened this year a plus 50 is tough for me to understand. It may have taken this creature 20 or even 30 years to reach this size!!
Regular shop customers who are "carp killers" know very well our thoughts on this subject, and I must say they respect our views. I believe many now only take smaller fish and then ONLY what they need. They also give Colin and I the courtesy of not rubbing our noses in it !! There are no piles of dead bodies on the bank ! (Possibly because Colin would be liable to throw them in lol:) In the same way I do not want Dead fish photos on this site. Frankly it makes my stomach turnover and I truley feel sick when I see them. FOR the record, below is my reply to Freshwater Phil re the post I have deleted ( this is the first ever post I have deleted apart from unwanted Porn) This is not a personal attack on Phil, I have never met the guy.
From Jeff:
Hi Phil and welcome to the site.
Although we have not met I have seen your own site and some of your photographs etc. My operation is a little different from yours. I respect fully your rights to kill carp, I do not like it but that is life. I know many of the customers to the Long Sault carp shop kill carp, even some I consider good friends, again I do not like it but that is the Canadian way. However my staff and this site promote catch and release for carp and if I see any photographs of dead or badly handled carp appear on the site I will delete them. You may notice I have deleted one of your posts under the 2007 season for this reason. Dead fish or even live fish held up by the gills for photography upsets me and will upset a lot of my customers. Again I repeat you are welcome on the site, but request you do not post dead carp pictures. Re ice fishing at Long Sault, There is a guy "Claude" in LS who hires out the huts , probably you are best off calling Mark Jarvis or his wife at Carpins in Long Sault Lastly a personal plea. If you MUST kill carp please only kill the small fish I have seen on your website big fish dead in a heap by the side of the bridge, and you quoted as saying you do not personally eat them but give them to friends !!!! Over fishing has killed off a lot of sport fishing in Canada lets not now start on the Carp.
Freshwater Phil replied:
I tried tried to reply to a response to my ice fishing post, but something didn't work properly in the system.
I do plan to return for more carpin next year, although I don't have any plans to keep any as of yet. It turns out that many of the people that were originally jumping for joy when I brought them the carps, were left with a big mess to clean up once they cleaned and prepared the fish. They don't want to clean any more fish at home, some were having a local fish store clean them for a fee, but towards the end of the 2007 season, a few actually asked me not to bring any more carp.
I would like to point out that I don't enjoy killing carp, and if I don't have any requests for them, I release them without even taking them out of the water (unless they are big and I want a good picture).
I understand that British people have conservation views when it comes to carp, but in Canada, invasive species such as carp and gobies are destroying our native fisheries. Having fished Long Sault since the late 70's, I can attest to the fact that the only fishery that is growing in size and numbers is carp and more recently gobies. All other species are becoming more scarce and smaller. As much as I understand your point of view, many local / native anglers view carp as a nuisance an a major threat to spawning native fish.
From Jeff:
Firstly I repeat my earlier statement. I do not like people killing carp but respect your rights to do so. There are however some points in your mail I must take issue with.
1; Non of us if we are honest, can say it is morally right to put a hook in a fishes mouth and take it out of its natural environment. Good fishermen do this in the most humane way possible and those with respect for the fish know how to look after them and put them back without harm.
2; As to your statement that it is worse to "torture a fish and put it back, than to torture a fish and then kill it" to use a good old English term this is BOLLOCKS. Firstly I dispute the torture bit, if you know anything about fishing you will know their have been numerous studies proving fish do not feel pain as we understand it. (and if this were not the case the PETA people would have closed us down already) But let`s assume for the sake of your argument they do feel pain. My reply is simple. If you took a beating in a bar would you rather they finished you off with a bullet in the head or call a medic and let you recover?
3; I also agree that killing 20 or 30 carp per year will do little harm in Long Sault. PROVIDING these are small fish, and providing there are not 100`s of people doing it. However your website and your You Tube videos are littered with dead carp photos. I haven't added up the bodies because as I say I find it sickening, but it looks like a lot to me.
4; As much as I love carp, even I would kill one to give to a starving man. Again though, from what I understand big carp taste like shit (the real reason your friends don't want them any more) and only small carp are really edible. If you are a half way decent fisherman you will be catching so many fish at Long Sault you can be selective and kill only the small fish. Why then are all your dead carp photos of big fish?
5; As to the decline in fishing being due to the carp. What do you think they are doing to your waters? There are two main reasons that other fishing is in decline. TOO MANY FISH WERE BEING KILLED. I hear stories all the time from guys saying I used to be able to kill 300 perch in a day and now I am lucky to kill 50. But also have you not noticed fish sizes have declined along with the water becoming clear due to Zebra muscles, these buggars are filtering out all the microscopic algae and microbes at the bottom of your food chain. As far as I know the carp are the only predator you have for the muscles!!
The long and short of it is. You will never win a debate on killing carp with a Brit, we simply HATE it. I repeat again each to his own, but simply, all I am saying is there will be no dead carp on my site if I can avoid it.
Good luck with your fishing and I truly hope you do as you say and practice catch and release next year.
From Phil:
I noticed the latest response to my last message, in response to it:
The pics on my web site were taken over 2 seasons, more carp were killed in 2006 than 2007, that is why you can count more than 20 dead carp on my web site.
I did kill some over 20 LB (less than 10 over 2 seasons) , although most were the average 10 LB - 14 LB fish.
In reponse to fish feeling pain, although I doubt that predatory fish feel pain, as they have to chew on dorsal fins, I have a good feeling that carp are more sensitive, which is why some anglers use hair rigs. I personally keep my hooks covered with corn, and never leave the points exposed, to avoid spooking them. Even if we were to assume that they don't feel pain when hooked, I'm sure they don't enjoy fighting for their lives, as the hook will often tear through their mouths. Additionally, they must feel high stress levels during and after the battle. I've caught some carp that looked as if they had a bad day at the body piercing shop, they must have been caught 3-4 times, and had various hook wounds in seperate areas of their mouths.
I'm obviously not going to post pics of any more dead carp to your web site, although I'm not going to go overboard with "release blankets" and "weigh bags" that I have seen some British anglers using, then are simply too much for me.
You can be sure that when I do release a fish, I revive it properly to make sure it can swim away on it's own. I've released many sport fish, including musky, pike, bass, etc, and actually have a live release carp video I haven't converted to online format yet, I hope to do so over the next month or so.
From Iceman:
I could not bear to look at the rest of your site Phil.
Do you also have bloody pics of pike, musky, bass, perch etc. with holes in their heads?
Freshwater Phil replied:
I take bag limits of bass and pike from clean waters on a regular basis, provided the season is open. I don't have any obligation to be more "righteous" than the MNR that creates these laws to begin with. Even "conservation" licenses allow for keeping a couple fish per day of these species.
The reason most pics of these fish on my site don't have holes in their heads, is because their heads are a lot harder than the top of a carp's head. I usually kill fish by knocking them out with a rock or beer bottle, carp heads usually pop open with brains squirting out, bass and pike sometimes have their eyes bulge after a couple good shots, but the top of the head remains intact. I find this to be the quickest / cleanest way of killing large fish. For smaller trout, I simply rip out their throat and snap the neck, clubbing them is too messy.
I don't bother with perch, they are too small and often infested with worms. I've released a couple muskies, as they were too small (under 36 inches) , still not sure if I would mount a trophy fish (over 50 inches) or release it, I would really have to decide once I catch one, I don't think I will be eating many muskies as their mercury / PCB levels are too high. I wouldn't mind tasting one though, just to see what they are like.
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